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2 x 6500 vs 15000 ansi lumen

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by madsmeskalin, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. madsmeskalin

    madsmeskalin Torkonfoslak

    Im doing a gig in an indoor location, and the promoter asked me what would be best. 2 x 6500 ansi lumen projectors, or 1 x 15000 ansi lumen projector. I was thinking maybe to go with two, as we need to cover at least a 12 wide screen. There will be a lot of lights. What do you guys think?
  2. many2

    many2 Active Member

    It really depends...

    What is the exact size of your screen ? If the ratio is around 4:3 and your width is 12 m, that gives you over 1000 sq feet of projection area. 15000 lumens will give you around 15 footlambert, which is OK for a very dark environment (similar to cinema film projectors). 2x6500 in convergence will give you less in that situation.

    If your ratio is more like 8:3 (very widescreen), then you'll have better results with 2x6500 each covering half of the overall image.

    The other thing to consider is backup : if you have 2 projectors, well it means that if one fails then you can still have a show. A dimmer show, but still a show. For some projects this is essential. If a show has 2000 paying audience members, and each pays 100$, then you can quickly establish that a missed show is already worth more than the price of a live backup unit. On some projects, video is more like an add-on and a video system failure would not force a cancellation - in those cases, a backup is not as essential.

    Also consider other factors : projector positioning, lenses and other optics issues, shadows, power requirements, install complexity, transport - so many things to consider beside brightness.

    Finally, there is one thing that is very important for me but that is often overlooked : black levels. No standard video projector can output black : the best they can do is dark grey. Let's say that this grey is worth "10" (this is just a value for the sake of example, it's not an actual measure). If you use two projectors in convergence, then you add those two dark greys together, and your darkest possible black now has a value of "20" - twice as bright as the one you'd get from a single projector.
  3. many2

    many2 Active Member

    It really depends...

    What is the exact size of your screen ? If the ratio is around 4:3 and your width is 12 m, that gives you over 1000 sq feet of projection area. 15000 lumens will give you around 15 footlambert, which is OK for a very dark environment (similar to cinema film projectors). 2x6500 in convergence will give you less in that situation.

    If your ratio is more like 8:3 (very widescreen), then you'll have better results with 2x6500 each covering half of the overall image.

    The other thing to consider is backup : if you have 2 projectors, well it means that if one fails then you can still have a show. A dimmer show, but still a show. For some projects this is essential. If a show has 2000 paying audience members, and each pays 100$, then you can quickly establish that a missed show is already worth more than the price of a live backup unit. On some projects, video is more like an add-on and a video system failure would not force a cancellation - in those cases, a backup is not as essential.

    Also consider other factors : projector positioning, lenses and other optics issues, shadows, power requirements, install complexity, transport - so many things to consider beside brightness.

    Finally, there is one thing that is very important for me but that is often overlooked : black levels. No standard video projector can output black : the best they can do is dark grey. Let's say that this grey is worth "10" (this is just a value for the sake of example, it's not an actual measure). If you use two projectors in convergence, then you add those two dark greys together, and your darkest possible black now has a value of "20" - twice as bright as the one you'd get from a single projector.
  4. madsmeskalin

    madsmeskalin Torkonfoslak

    It will depend on the native aspect ratio of the projector, but probably (2 x 16:10, or 2 x 4x3) connected with a dual head.

    If we use one 15000 ansi lumen instead we will have to put it further back in the venue to cover the same area as 2 x 6500 ansi lumens. So what do you think would give best effect?

    The promoter is mostly worried about light output, as there will be quite a light show. However, he will will try to setup the lights as not to interfere with the projections.

    Oh, I see you already answered that one. Thanks alot, Many2! It´s great to have a forum where I can ask so many stupid questions at once :p
  5. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    yeah, I'm waiting for you to ask which way you should part your hair
  6. psyOptik

    psyOptik New Member

    Light show

    What's the geometry, and how do you place your beamers? Is there enough distance for one 15k projector, will it have wide angle (which steals light at the edges) or std. lens?

    The promotor wants cool projection and "quite a lightshow". Good luck with that :)

    --> deepvisual: I think there's a forum where Mr. Meskalin can ask about grooming of hair, so I beg you, - do not solicit even more stupid questions..
  7. madsmeskalin

    madsmeskalin Torkonfoslak

    If somebody feels Im asking irrelevant questions, feel free to tell me. Snide remarks is not telling someone.

    We gonna place the beamers in the light rig roughly 5 meters above the dancefloor. Its not a wide angle lens, but that's basically what I know about it. The lights are a big part of the night, so the promoter was a little concerned tht 6500 ansi lumrns might not cut it. What do you guys think?
  8. many2

    many2 Active Member

    If you are projecting on two screens side by side then you are better with 2x 6500 lumens than with a single 15000 lumens.

    You need to make calculations for your projector positioning according to its lens. This is absolutely essential if you do not want to lose time (and hair) during the install. If you only have 5m of throw distance, then you will not be able to project a 6m wide image without a wide angle lens.

    Lighting, even if not (god forbid) pointing directly at the screen can easily kill your projections. Try to befriend the lighting designer/operator : if you work together, instead of against each other, you can really bring this to the next level. You can define moments when your projections are off and lighting can use your screens as canvas for pure lighting effects, or simply to take opportunity of the dark. But in exchange you can get purely video moments, with no lighting, so you can use your rig to its full potential.

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