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Arkaos 3.5 HW

Discussion in 'Software' started by vjpixylight, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    It seems like everytime I turn around, Arkaos is introducing something new or updated..:D

    This time it is integrating it's engine with GPU acceleration, enabling the much talked about, pixel/vertex processing...

    In many ways this will be the PC equivelent to OSXs use of core video, albiet, (given the latest advances in PC hardware, and GPU's) more likely even more dynamic..

    Here is what the newest version of ARKAOS
    does...

    I am still not clear if FreeFrame is now being also implemented with Arkaos 3.5..
     
  2. sleepytom

    sleepytom VJF Admin

    umm its hardly a revolution...

    they are just rendering using direct3d or openGL

    LOTs of apps have been using his methord for a long time now
     
  3. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    Yeah true nothing that special.

    Nice marketing idea though well done folks getting nvidea involved. I wonder if they use specfic dedicated nVidea instruction sets and the product will have a lower performance on ATI.

    Oh I got the impression that the Arkaos HW is different to Arkaos 3.5 which you have to pay a new license fee for. Mayeb I am wrong. *shrug*
     
  4. johnnylocust

    johnnylocust R3dN3cK \/_/

    Yes it is.

    No they're not. VJamm just renders using OpenGL. Arkaos HW however uses the programmable pipeline. There is a HUGE difference. The labor of processing vertices and pixels is offloaded to the GPU. A parallel processing, and obscenely fast pixel crunching monster whose sole purpose in life is to create video effects.

    Most current 3d content creation apps do: Salvation (a hoot to play with), Pilgrem, etc. I'm not aware of very many Video Triggering apps that use the GPU to process video. MidiVid GPU does, and is incredibly fast.

    Freeframe is nice, and a very well designed specification, but it simply doesn't hold up in high resolutions. With a CPU busting it's balls to decode something like WMV HD video, there's simply no processor time left to process effects. And even if it did, a CPU doing a few 9 tap convolution matrices on 720p or 1080p resolution? Ummm, no.


    That's probably not how it worked. ATI and nVidia both offer a developer program, and both are free of charge. If you develop commercial video software, you are encouraged to join either, or both, mainly for the purpose to ensure, not deny compatability. With hundreds of research papers written on GPU based video processing, both companies have been chewing at the bit for someone to come along with an application like Arkaos HW. It's no supprise to me that nVidia is waving the flag for it.
     
  5. akira_k

    akira_k 8GB EUTour 2010 - book us

    I don't think so.

    Core Video is something BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM. As far as I understood this is only something working on Arkaos, so not at all like Core Video.

    ZzzzZZ hummm hummmm... In all, nothing that modul8 cannot do already. Revolutionary? Not at all... They are just adding features available in modul8 since version ONE.

    Inform yourself: www.garagecube.com/modul8

    Please show me something exciting, like the new beta of modul8 v2
     
  6. elbows

    elbows PixelRomper

    Id mostly agree with johnnylocusts points. If the implementation of hardware 3D pipeline stuff is done right, it is special and probably the single biggest leap in output quality that Ive witnessed in the last 5 years. I consider it to be extremely early days for software that does a good job of this stuff.

    In terms of video image quality, in recent years KazetachiAD, Pilgrim R1, Smode and MidividGPU have given my eyes a treat and produced marvelous quality output in comparison to software using no or basic 3D stuff.

    Likewise effects done in the GPU have shown a wonderful quality to me, but there has not so far been a very wide choice of effects. Ive seen far less filters and effects done with shaders etc than there were 2D effects in the pre-freeframe era. Now freeframe and the range of lovely developers making freeframe plugins has given a very large palette of effects options. Its far from certain how many people who program 2D effects will be creating shader etc effects that run on GPUs, it may take many more years for that to happen.

    Anyway the best compromise for now is an app that can handle freeframe effects and GPU stuff. Ive yet to see what Arkaos implementation is like, it has to live up to a lot to be as good as midividGPU in my opinion. PilgrimR2 also looks promising in terms of features, but the current version is a bit flakey. It has some nice programmable effects pipeline stuff, but until the app is more stable I cant tell how well it performs in terms of framerate etc.

    I dont think VJ software overall even finished maturing its use of previous generation 3D technologies, Im still enjoying non-GPU pipeline 3D vjing possibilities with other applications I like that I havent mentioned here like smode and vjo, though I forget right now what 3D stuff smode uses (opengl or directx etc).

    Actually I wondering really how many VJs here are actually using much hardware 3D in their setups at all. I still see that most of the time when people are speccing up new systems, they ask about graphics but the software they actually use doesnt benefit much or at all from hardware 3D. Ive no idea what percentage of people here have actually seen apps like midividGPU and others in action, because when I started using them I went hooba hooba at the speed and quality and responsiveness.

    Ive been all off the track and dispondant and disconnected for months, but maybe I'll have to drag my PC to avituk05 so that I can have a collective reality check and see if Ive mismemorised the quality of 2D VJing software output compared to the 3D stuff, maybe Ive imagined a bigger leap than there really is, I dunno.
     
  7. akira_k

    akira_k 8GB EUTour 2010 - book us

    I take it this is like this for you because you are a PC user and never checked modul8 out. It does everything said in the Arkaos page since version 1.0
     
  8. elbows

    elbows PixelRomper

    Re: Re: Arkaos 3.5 HW

    Agree it is nothing like corevideo in the sense that it is not something cross-application. It is possible to share GPU shader effects in a variety of formats, but I think in practise there arent many VJing apps on the PC that support this yet. The lack of people actually coding GPU-based effects is the biggest issue, something like corevideo is most use if it can kickstart such things in the way freeframe did for 2d.

    However it is a revolution in one very specific sense, Its a revolution for anybody who wants to use Arkaos, if its their app of choice then hoorah and good for them that they are getting some GPU stuff, lets see how well its actually coded.

    So anyway its exactly the same as you saying that a new beta od modul8 excites you, well good, so it should, you love modul8 but people that arent intereted in it or own the wrong kind of computers to run it arent going to be any more excited by that than you are about arkaos!
     
  9. elbows

    elbows PixelRomper

    Ive spent stupid amounts of my time investigating 3D VJ apps since they first emerged on the PC, I dont want some silly flame war with you over platform choices.

    I actually agree with you that apps already exist that use the same tech as this new Arkaos to do roughly the same things. So I wait and see what the actual implementation is like.
     
  10. elbows

    elbows PixelRomper

    Although having said that its also possible the new Arkaos makes use of some actual nvidia specific features that havent got used much yet, such as the much mareted enhanced video playback stuff. The devil really is in the detail and its at a level that the marketing largely cant shed light on. I mean there may be things Hardware 3D bits that Modul8 uses that Arkaos wont, or vice versa.

    Perhaps the quickest guide to what hardware 3D is being used is the minimum spec of card that the software will run on. I could start to probe you about what 3D hardware is needed to run Modul8, leading on to whether it actually uses the same 3D hardware stuff that Arkaos will, or whether we are talking about similar results (in terms of features) but done with very different technology. I dont really think it matters, as long as the app does what you want.
     
  11. Meierhans

    Meierhans Spezialmusik

    Thats a real reason to take a look at Arkaos again. The biggest flaw in my eyes where the bad pixelated effects quality. This really may be a a revolution. Looking forward for first tests.

    Want no flame wars too, modul8 is great and performant, but it lacks effects.
     
  12. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    I thinks it all a bit ironic, really

    ...that we just went thru the ati vs nvidia debate about there use of the pci-e technologies, and then boom Arkaos shows up with 3.5 specially optimized for the nvidia 6800 go ..

    Thing is, it will take nvidia awhile longer to get these up for the macs, so the Mac version of 3.5 won't be working it like the PC version..

    It will be interesting to compare Mod8 on the g5 dual pro, and 3.5 on the Sager PC laptop...

    We do have to wait for tiger tho:p
     
  13. sketchyj

    sketchyj New Member

    i wonder if the nvidia geforce go 5700 on my laptop will run it
     
  14. PiedPiper

    PiedPiper Old And Crusty

    It should run on any Fx or better variant card, unless they have written specific PS + vs 3.0 shader paths - which would be a bit silly, since the 3.0 spec is fully compatible with 2.0. and it would mean that no Ati hardware could use it this new arkaos.

    But i would expect it ro happily run on a fx5700Go.
    btw, what lappy do you hvae that in?

    It is about time they got this out, i really expected the initial 3.0 release to be GPU based, the same for resolume 2.0. Given vj-apps are cutting edge high end software, i think it's pretty sad thats it's taken this long to get some pro-level GPU based apps out.

    Even more respect to people behind apps like midividGPU, pack/VJ2/pilgram/salvation who are much smaller organisation but are re-writing the rules and levels of quality we can expect from vj apps!

    It would be ncie to have seen a GPU based VJO too :(

    I think it's about time we started a Freeframe spec for GPU based effects and filters.
     
  15. slof

    slof New Member

    Will Arkaos 3.5 still have this out of this world ugly childish GUI? the screenshots on nZone still show the 3.0 screenshots.
     
  16. akira_k

    akira_k 8GB EUTour 2010 - book us

    Me neither, I was just saying that you are a PC user maybe you never tried modul8 therefore you might not be aware of what it does, that's all.

    I agree that this is a huge step forward regarding Arkaos, but what I meant is that this is not the end-all best achievement in 5 years regarding video applications, in any platform. As said before, not much new to see here unless we contextualize it only to Arkaos development.

    The GUI could show improvements too, yes.
     
  17. elbows

    elbows PixelRomper

    Are there many/any videos online either showing output from modul8, or screencapture video showing module8 user interface etc?

    Cheers
     
  18. akira_k

    akira_k 8GB EUTour 2010 - book us

    They have loads of screenshots of the user interface on teh website I linked above.

    Output videos, I never seen any! Would be swell to see something. What would you like being demo'ed this way? I could make a quick video and upload it...
     
  19. sketchyj

    sketchyj New Member

    i'm going to run out and buy version 3.03 of Arkaos probably around May 22...i would rather have 3.5 but it is unclear on the arkaos site when the release date will be...
    anyone know anything? and should i hold on to my money?
    i need an app soon because i have a gig on june 5. I have been using 3.0 arkaos the last 2 times and i like it ok. it's either resolume or arkaos, and i prefer arkaos if i could have a working version thats not so buggy as what ive been getting by with
     
  20. turkish

    turkish Doin' it in HK. sometimes

    3.5

    If ya buy at the moment then when 3.5 comes out I believe it'll be a free upgrade - so doesnt matter if you buy now or 3 months time.
     
  21. XPz

    XPz New Member

    3.0 is very old now. a lot of problems fixed.
    3.0.2 added a lot of new features like movie selection, movie synch to BPM, scratching & speed control, new effects.

    updates are free :D
    I think they are late with 3.5. Still waiting for FreeFrame support...
     
  22. Luminarti

    Luminarti Now Video Production

    Someone should tell them to hurry up - as resolume 2.2 now runs very nice on my P4 1.5 Vaio so I might have to buy that instead!

    Mark
    VJ Luminarti
     
  23. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    the latest from Agnes over at Arkaos..

    "The goal now is to release the 3.5 with Freeframe, Firewire output, new
    automation, new DMX fixture... and then release a 3.5.1 (or 3.6) with the
    HW support."

    she also said sometime in June!;)
     

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