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Art? no thanks, I do visuals

Discussion in 'Resonance' started by deepvisual, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    lets be controversial
    Maybe its just me, but someone mentioning the words art and visuals in the same sentence drives me crazy.

    I was wondering if instead of the terminally dull threads on Vj categories, it might be easier to split the whole field into Artists and craftsmen
    can someone help tidy up my maths?

    Art + visuals = little talent + big ego.
  2. SteveG

    SteveG Downstairs for Dancing

    Hows this then?
    Little Talent + Visuals = Craftsmen with no time for ego or social life :D
  3. ShaKinDa

    ShaKinDa New Member

    vjing = art (whether you like it or not)
    when putting a few bricks in room or having a big turd on paper is considered art even if you only play downloaded clips badly you still (even if unconciously) made decisions about what would got where when, what colours to use, form etc. therefore of course its art at some level.

    however doing something thats creative and disappearing up yer own arse are not the same. a mate of mine sells over 50 paintings a year for about 2k each, and he says its just "a painting" and i still see him drinking in the same pub watching the football.

    i dont think there should be any fear over being called "an artist", if Djs like Goldie and Alex Kidd who are basically psychopaths who happen to be good at mixing records are called artists then why shouldn't vjs? i mean it doesnt mean you have to wear a scarf and talk about paris all the time, its just a description of what you do. most of the great masters went through painting apprenticeships where they trained like craftsmen but made art...

    not that there is anything wrong with craftsmen its just i consider their primary job to create an object that has practical use and then be creative with it. so until i can sit in or set my coffee on a vj set i think we're more in the artist category...

    whether you are up the front in a pink shirt beside the dj, or down the back in black by the sound guys bears no relation to whether what you are doing are not is art....
  4. SteveG

    SteveG Downstairs for Dancing

    Funny this should come up today....I'm up to my eyes in tins of Dulux....guess i'm an artist today. The sittting room is various natural shades before you ask :D
  5. lichterloh

    lichterloh New Member

    true deep visual. as we all need to do working products to be used by the audience we're much closer to a designer doing a spoon to eat with or a chair to sit on, it's a f**king service.

    for us the equation is more like art + club visuals = whatever talent + too little ego, as it's an attempt to justify what one is doing, tryin to make it sound somewhat better (depends on the point of view though).

    we've actually done an interview at the shining festival for new media art (=visuals!!!) in germany claiming visuals not to be art, which got us quite a lot of, well, let's say bad vibes from fellow vj's :flamethro
    and we've been to a vj gathering once with aim to find new ways of cementing visuals as an art form. we've left early and looked like this :eek:

    we wouldn't say nothing out there to be shown as visuals is possibly art. but most of it, especially when promoters always take the younger and cheaper vj's, doesn't even work as good design/doesn't work for the people (which is our job!) - you like have to claim it's art then :D and as the club audience in general is anything else than art experts, they'll most times believe you.
  6. john01

    john01 5 quids worth of italics

    Is a craftsman is an artisan ?

    Does that mean you'd have a problem with a sentence containing the phrase "visual part" ? kind of neuro-linguistic bullying. "You'll be doing the visual p-art".

    In all honesty whenever anyone praises something I have made and complements my abilities I always reply it's the guys that make the software that are the real talents. A lot of what people splatter on the screen is the result of the modern so called creative process of "Throw shit at the wall and see what sticks". It is a selection of the more or less random results of a process of elimination. Often people who style themselves as "artists" or "creative" do not actually have a creative vision, they have a sense of style, good or bad taste.

    So I think the division you are looking for is between the people who match with what you find to be stylistically and technically acceptable (your craftswomen), and people who are trying to make some kind of statement (your aspiring artists).

    Personally I think clubs are places to socialize, they are not art galleries or cinemas, the role of the visuals is to entertain & excite, if they achieve this then whether the lady making them is a self styled artist or a skilled craftswoman is a side issue. Beyond clubs I don't really know, I am not interested in standing in a gallery, holding a glass of cheap white wine and pretending to be interested. What I do like about the combination of music and visuals in clubs is the fact it is transitory, it is a time and place, enjoyed for what it is then forgotten. Arbitrary and random associations, like modern life.

    I have a bigger problem with advertising in visuals in clubs myself.
  7. lichterloh

    lichterloh New Member

  8. USE

    USE Primal Visions


    vjing*(art+deepvisual) = (chip/shoulder)>deepvisual

  9. Scratchpole

    Scratchpole Hmm still thinking...

    DV maybe your just a technician!

    Steve, a craft person takes his time, don't rush it.
    A painter and decorator is usually a labourer!
    They earn a lot less than toilet attendants.
    I find p+d quite a zen experience.

    Art+Technician=VJ/craft person

    My major problem with Art is the predominant ideology of the Fine Art/Conceptual art establishment.... If you have to read the description on the wall the art is not communicating effectively.
  10. SteveG

    SteveG Downstairs for Dancing

    Maybe you should come and paint my sitting room then Joe :D

    Deepvisual's done it again......dropped the grenade into the hole, taken cover and waits to watch the fallout....lol
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2008
  11. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    i just think I am lucky I got thrown out of art class - for painting a gang of skinheads fighting when asked to do 'queing for the match' for homework.
    I told the teacher he had obviously never been to a football match .

    i think I got thrown out of RE too, for the same reason..
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2008
  12. SteveG

    SteveG Downstairs for Dancing

    I got thrown out of art class for modelling things in clay that I shouldn't have :D.....still managed an A Grade though ;)
  13. Scratchpole

    Scratchpole Hmm still thinking...

    I hope some of my art/tech/communication workshops with young people may have helped them stay in school and keep learning.

    My fine art degree tutor asked if I would leave, two years in a row. I reminded them who pays the wages.

    Steve you know my hourly rate, it's the same as VJing- but I'm a bloody good P+D.;)
  14. john01

    john01 5 quids worth of italics

    I got kicked out of computer studies for being a smart ass (no surprise there) and spent my art classes at school sniffing fixative, our teacher was never in the room for some reason, I think alcohol might have been involved. We all flunked.

    If I'd been asked to do "Queuing for a Match" I'd have drawn a line of people with unlit cigarettes.
  15. 6071842

    6071842 I've given money to VJForums

    Holla!!!! :)
  16. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    its just synchronicity i know, but it always seems that the words visuals and boring come to mind when I go see these 'art events'..

    I'm a luddite I guess but, it could be worse. It could be me in a gallery talking a load of pretentious claptrap about my latest 'work'..
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2008
  17. ASMD

    ASMD Steel City Visuals

    Artists create problems

    Designers solve them.
  18. SteveG

    SteveG Downstairs for Dancing

    And most designers go over budget and screw up the artists original plans or visions :biggrin:

    I think visuals can be classed as art in a gallery type setting but any I've seen I normally find very boring and not the visuals I personally enjoy watching or producing :D Nor is it what clubbers would enjoy and that's where I concentrate my efforts. I'd rather watch some form of short film or documentary. Visuals in the VJ'ing sence to me are for musical events providing an interesting changing background in order to bring things to life a little add colour, movement provide another source of interest.
  19. ASMD

    ASMD Steel City Visuals

    I'd say that the VJ who actually creates their own material (beyond animating a logo or some other design) is effectively a video artist, as long as there's some sort of conceptual idea or theme going on that's being explored.

    Most clubland VJs have the unique advantage in that they have an audience and envionment to showcase their creations, even if that is 1000 clubbers completely off their heads.

    But you've got your audience. You've got your context. You've got your concepts. You've got your constraints. VJing isn't art for arts sake; it's art to entertain and enhance the experience of those 1000 clubbers completely off their heads. If you don't, don't expect to get paid.

    In that respect, I'd consider a VJ a designer rather than an artist.
  20. bryandod

    bryandod Integrated Visions

    Well said.
  21. asterix

    asterix IMAGINEER

    Art as content creation
    Art as programming
    Art as performance
    Art as an installation

    For me it is very much 'art' and a welcome escape from my regular design job. Art is a manifestation of your intention or idea - you don't need to be using oil paints or gallery's to be an artist. If you're merely a 'button' pusher - then I'd suggest you are not a VJ :rolleyes:

    "The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance." ~ Aristotle
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
  22. Donnie Darko

    Donnie Darko pixel jockey

    What kinda design you do mate? Graphic design student bum here..

    Also, I feel this picture applies well to this thread :

  23. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    thanks guys.
    I'm a changed man.
    its nice to see people talking sense about art for once.
    I think I've had too many high-maintenance High-Art girlfriends.
    I could never see the point in spending a year making something dull, with a ridiculous price tag, that will only be seen by a dozen people.

    Art gallery + visuals = Zzzzz...

    visual art + fun = :club:
  24. Donnie Darko

    Donnie Darko pixel jockey

    i became a designer because my art teacher was never happy when my explanation was "it just looks cool"
  25. vdmoKstaTi

    vdmoKstaTi Seems to be Right Now

    This bolded statement is true to a degree, though once again even programmers haven't created the software without the use of tools and platforms of people before them. It all goes down the line here, some people created Operating Systems, Others have worked on developing computer languages, creating compilers while numerous mathematicians working out the formulas for those things to work, programming editors were created for those programmers to realise they work into something new. Software which you eventually use for your own expression.

    Your work and work of many others incorporates the work of other people just as well, all on different levels. It is the same in science, you either inventor of something totally new or you base your work on existing tools and knowledge.

    Even true artists explore other people's produce before they paint a master piece or create sketches. Some people craft and frame canvases for them, develop paper, create paints and put it into the tubes, while select few chase squirrels to make the best brushes, etc :)

    True Art comes from within incorporating your feelings, emotions, expressions that you get out through your chosen medium. If you happen to make a living out of your Art, your internal instincts will find its own chosen project away from any "commissioned" work that you might have to be doing. This is the way for the true artists in you to continue. VJing in our example encompasses wide variety of individual skills and abilities for it all to come together.

    As Asterix posted,

    Art as content creation
    Art as programming
    Art as performance
    Art as an installation

    + much more (each of the groups can be expanded and few more added)
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
  26. paranoidkarma

    paranoidkarma ** VISUAL ADDICT **

    I create content, unique content from scratch, i think i'm an artist, visual artist, i don't care about craftsman anymore :)
  27. complexvisuals

    complexvisuals Eye Squared

    Does it matter?
  28. Gumby

    Gumby I've given money to VJForums

    It does if people are always going to question "what is art?".

    Art is what you want it to be. Some people don't consider video art to be art, despite the fact it's been around for years. Anyone can consider anything to b art. One persons award winning work is another's pile of shit. (probably because their jealous that they didn't think of the idea and get the 25k prize money).

    If you think that VJing is an art form: Fine.
    If you don't think VJing is an art form: Fine.

    Why is VJing know as AudioVisual art?

    VJing is performance video art. You can't deny it. The sheer fact that you are performing something which has been captured, or created organically makes it art. You are showing people the world through your eyes, something which you saw once and they didn't and they now can see it.

    Admitidly yes, maybe in the context of a club when everyone is drunk/stoned then they're not going to appriciate the art side to the visuals. As long as people enjoy it, then thats good. As long as you enjoy it thats good too.

    Right, off my soapbox.
  29. Entheogen

    Entheogen New Member

    Genres and categories are so last millennium.

    My life and work transcends the boundaries of society's labels. I like to think at least anyway.
  30. complexvisuals

    complexvisuals Eye Squared

    So it doesnt matter then.

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