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Can it get any better than this?

Discussion in 'Software' started by TheBoyCalledWonder, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. TheBoyCalledWonder

    TheBoyCalledWonder I can't dream for us all

    I was wondering... (I'm Dutch, excuse my english)... WHO ARE THE BEST VJ's?
    I see a lot em here in Holland, and there are about three I really like. But which VJ's should I've REALLY heard of as a visual artist? I personally like Micha Klein. I think he's the best... (and "No" he's not related to "Calvin"). But I'm still wondering: Does it get any better than this... If it does I'd like to know about it...
    You can check Micha Klein out at:
    www.metadreams.com and

    He's also got his own software "VideoFlux" anybody ever heard of it? worked with it? Is it any good? It's the only VJ-software I ever worked with and I like it a lot. He modified VideoFlux for coca-cola and you can check it out online at: http://vjtool.cocacola.nl/vjtool.htm
    You do need to download a 1.1MB MetaDreams plugin. In the online version there's no support for two monitors and you can't add your own movies. But it's nice to play with and get the feeling of the app.

    If you know VideoFlux tell me what you think. I think it's great, but it's the first and only program I worked with. So if there is anything better, I'd like to know.

    Greetings from Holland,
  2. robotfunk

    robotfunk Feed your Machine

    Sure hope it does

    Not many people I know are much impressed with his work. I have not seen him live much, but stuff like the dancing pill man that made him famous are a bit tacky if you ask me.

    Wasnt too impressed with that software either but of course I am way biased on that front. Have a look in the software reviews on vjcentral to get an idea of what's out there.

    I'm sure he made a bundle selling the lite version to coca cola though,
  3. TheBoyCalledWonder

    TheBoyCalledWonder I can't dream for us all

    Well.. the good thing about him is that he actually gives you something to look at, that doesn't bore you after 15 minutes. His performance just keeps on surprising you. Which keeps you hooked. Expecially the people doing their "chemical-love-thing": Besides the music that makes you feel good and love-able, his animations are focused on the loved-up feeling and that I love.

    And you?re right about pillman. Pillman is a bit aged now.
  4. ecin

    ecin triggerMotion

    his work is too "candy rave" and cliche for me and isn't the whole "chemical-love-thing" over with? haven't seen anyone into that in years, i thought they all grew up.

    check out the software revies at vj central for a list of useful apps.
  5. elbows

    elbows PixelRomper

    Well I like the fact that he does his own content creation.

    My problem is that loved up stuff on its own is just too one dimensional for me personally. I suffer cheese overload quickly.

    Also just looking round his site the hype puts me off, I am interested by his seeming claim that he started the whole VJ thing in clubs. Is it true?

    But then this all says more about me than it does about him. Fair play to him I guess I just prefer stuff that is a lot darker and less ego - but then we will see what my own ego is like if I ever got to sell my art for $30,000 dollars to top collectors ;)

    Or maybe I am just jealous by the video that shows where he lives - its stupidly large.
  6. disassembler

    disassembler Mix+Mix+Chop+Chop

    GAY! Straight up. PUKE.

    And yeah I'm sure he made the Japanese animation that's in his Klein 2002 vid.

    Does he give out suckers, glow sticks, and pacifiers to?
    TO BRIGHT and to much love for me. I'm a satan worshiper.
  7. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    Ha ha ha ha ha. If too much love is gay then gay?ON, but Pillman is skanky, clinging to those models' legs like a parasite or crablice.

    Every strugling artist will hate a successful one who has a mainstream appeal. I remember being 10 or 12 and being blown away by Dali and Magritte. Now I think their stuff is..., well..., not quite the level of genius I once thought. They are gimmicky and not challenging to me now, but I always have to remember that they introduced me to conceptual art (surrealism). Without them I would not have the sophistication to recognize gimmicks and visual tricks as a draw for mainstream. Pillman's happy glow is just a gimmick to make the crowd feel their ecstacy. There's nothing wrong with that and he has probably drawn many people deeper into video art, but once you are ready for more challenging images you move on to other artists.

    I think the term "Best VJ in the World" is only temporary for you and has more to do with where you are at in your level of awareness, than any talent or intuitive genius of the artist. Maybe if you can go back years later and the images still blow you away, you can say that this artist is very challenging and timeless, but it does not make him the "best". You can also say "This VJ has had great commercial success", but it does not make him the "best" either. There is a much bigger world than happy-face suns and photoshopped fashion models.
  8. Mbazzy

    Mbazzy Dada

    I think people you need to have seen [ haven't seen them live though myself, yet ]are :



    But I'm VEEERRRRYYYY biased to all things remotely ninja .... [so is my own audio - ]
  9. vjrei

    vjrei Miami Caracas New York

    I hope his performances are better than his site.
  10. TheBoyCalledWonder

    TheBoyCalledWonder I can't dream for us all

    Well.. to be honest I don't know if he's the first in the WORLD, I did think he was. He was definitely the first to graduate on "Computer Graphics".

    And indeed... All that loved-up stuff isn't suitable for HardHouse, Terror, HardTrance, Tekno, Techno and all that louder stuff.. But I'm really into the BeachHouse, the funky house-grooves. And that's where everybody re-lives Woodstock. And that?s all about Free Love and Sex, Love and Peace. That's where Micha Klein comes from I guess...

    And again indeed. I've been in his house once... and it's amazing.. Beamers everywhere, psychadelic effects where ever you look... Love to live like that.
  11. Freespirit

    Freespirit New Member

    Videoflux has great potential.

    I don't know why there is such a negative attitude at the software because it really has great potential. If this is based on the Cola-mixer then I will agree with you. But after speaking with Rik (micha's programmer) I have the feeling that videoflux is going to blow away programms like Motiondive, RCFuse etc.(even VDMX if the mac version is there) It is only going to take a while until it is ready because Rik is someone who writes the software completely from scratch. If you want to know more just send him an e-mail (you find the adress on the metadreams site) he is very friendly and can tell you a lot more. I've been asking him about a mac version and if he has the time he will try to make one. But for know I hope that he finishes the windows version.
  12. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    best dutch vj's

    1. Dept (God BLess'm!!!)
    2. 00-KAAP (god bless'm !)
    3 Danielle Kwaaitaal

    All those guys/girl are so out of micha league it's ridiculous ok ok props for putting vjing on the map and he''s problably the nicest of guys : but I'm not feeling his work at all.

    it's his exposition in groningen that made me start vjing and not in the "wow this so cool " way but in the " hey didn't we just make a animation like that with basic materials in softimage in ...uuuh 4 minutes???" way not jeaulous just annoyed that a drug centered visualiser get so much props...must be the colors.
  13. junket

    junket New Member

    In Sydney Tesseract have been doing heaps of groovey VJ/visual stuff for a while, total respect.
  14. Freespirit

    Freespirit New Member

    His exhibition

    Just like Primebase3 I saw his museumexhibition. I never saw a VJ before and definatly nothing like this in a Museum so I was impressed. Now a couple of years later I organize partys with vj's and just started vj-ing myself. And I always remember the first time I saw vj-ing and for that I must give some respect to Micha Klein. But to say that I am in his camp definitely not. For a couple of good vj's look at SNOW-vj's an Channel Zero vj's in Groningen. I really like their work and I am happy to have been able to learn a lot of them just by watching. (Beside Videoflux is for the most part by Rik and not by Micha Klein)
  15. hamageddon

    hamageddon Motion Mapping Looper

    i'm not into dickswinging contests and can't stand
    that kitschy micha klein stuff, but i always keep
    coming back to d-fuse
  16. SunnyCalifornia

    SunnyCalifornia New Member


    I called MetaDreams today. Sounds like VideoFlux should be ready sometime within the next 3-4 months (Aug 2003 or so). I think this will be the Ultimate VJ Mixer / Switcher or clip based VJs, which should compliment VisualJockey and finally replace MotionDive (In English) and have a bunch of new features. It will be worth it!
  17. VideoChiel

    VideoChiel hooked on visuals

    I'm wondering why non of you Dutchies are mentioning Vison Impossible (www.vision-impossible.nl) between the other dutch artists I read..
    I think personally they did some awsome stuff in their KREMLIN period, not only by VJ'ing but also with beamer&screen placement.
    But I've never seen big VJ names from other countries so the best in the world....I dunno'

  18. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    impossible guys also rock. but "nog harder" from the earth nights in de melkweg..good stuf fas well.
  19. spark

    spark cut-up, composit, create

    start watching the 'mixmasters' pieces commissioned by addictive tv, and you'll very soon start making your own list... i'd say they get a 75% hit rate of top top stuff, and after that it just comes down to taste.

    they've been on tv in the UK and i think australia has just started showing them, and you can get them on dvd.

    taking the 'spaced out' DVD which has everybody from coldcut to brian kane of ebn making 10 minute mixes from the same pool of material, i'd say the ones that shine are peeka and brian kane...
  20. xangadix

    xangadix Veejays.com-professionals

    this is quite a hard topic to crack, since defining the best VJ in the world is quite hard. Let's compare it to the best painter in the world nowadays, or in all time. Who would it be? Andy Warhol for his final connection with popular culture? Durer for inventing perspective? Rembrand for his lighting or Kandinsky for inventing abstrahism (maybe Picasso as well) These things are a matter of opinion, taste etc.

    The same goes for vj'ing. Some do amazing stuff with samples, others with home-made material. some have wacky material but are able to play a crowd in an astounding way which is an asset as well.

    As for dutch VJ's, we have to credit Micha for putting VJing in the mainstraim, his style and his work may not be liked by all it's definetly special and specific for him. For that he deserves all respect. And yes I do think pillman is cliche, but remember it's already 6 years old.

    As for Channel Zero, they do have a lot of experience and were very interesting when they started but I find there work now quite insperationless, more of the same stuff. That can also be viewed as an asset, but I don't see them playing the crowd, they just 'show there stuff, in my humble opinion a vj should, like the dj, follow the vibe of the party.

    I was very impressed by the work of Vision Impossible and PM here in holland.

    As for Videoflux, as I understand it there will be a release of an initial version in two months or so, I've seen Rik working and he is a brilliant programmer, and what I've seen so far is quite flabbergasting :)
  21. Amukidi

    Amukidi New Member

    "defining the best VJ in the world is quite hard"
    Err no its not - it is impossible, as is defining the best artist, musician, chocolate etc. Its a ridiculous concept as we are talking subjective as opposed to objective. This also smacks, as hamageddon says, of Dick swinging! BTW Durer did not invent perspective (or even discover it for that matter). Leon Battista Alberti is regarded by most to be the first artist to notate the rules of linear perspective. Sorry to be pedantic but...... And in answer to the first question of this post - I bloody well hope so - this stuff looks well past its sell-by date.
  22. xangadix

    xangadix Veejays.com-professionals

    I stand corrected,
    ofcourse 'quite hard' was meant as an understatement.

    Could you elaborate on that 'past selling point' remark then, what software do you prefer then? This is one of the few programs that works entirely on the graphics card (that is in a 3d enviroment) and can because of that work fast (fast fx, fast graphics, faaaast 3d rendering) do you know of any other software that can do this? or things like this even better?

    (suddenly realizes this thread strarts to be 'best vj software in the world ;) )
  23. Amukidi

    Amukidi New Member

    Errr - I was referring to the original post by TheBoyCalledWonder
    about that Dutch VJ, not any sort of software (don't get me started on that!!!!) The only computer stuff I use is "Flashmixer" for my Flash stuff, the rest is MiniDV tapes and MX50 - I like a bit of resolution! (so do my audience).
  24. nkm

    nkm New Member

    PilgrimR1 can do that, and can do alot more!

  25. Amukidi

    Amukidi New Member

    What - mix 720x576 uncompressed full-screen video without any slow down????????????????
  26. sleepytom

    sleepytom VJF Admin

    mixing 2 streams of DV video is well within reach these days on a fast computer you can do a lot more too
  27. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    I use 4 streams of mpeg2 and I'm having a hard time believing that software can do what my hardware can do. I'm not saying it's impossible, but on a reasonable budget? No frame loss and no slowdown with a high-quality VBR codec?
  28. xangadix

    xangadix Veejays.com-professionals

    I must say that I find random acces to all my clips of great value in a show, that way I can follow the music better then when all my data is on a DV then I cant anticipate the music anymore. But all that is ofcourse all a matter of opinion, I however am happy to give some resolution (which doesn't show on most beamers anyway) for dynamic acces and digital fx processing.

    on the other hand, an MX50 comes with 4 inputs (5 if you count an extra camera) so why not use both DV and a couple of 'puters
  29. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    Yes, fast access is important. I'm also using indexed discs but they are DVDs playing in DVD players instead of harddrives. I could use laptops but I don't really see the point. I'm already running dedicated video players that are simple to use, don't need maintanence or driver updates, and are 20?30 times cheaper than a laptop. Most hardware mixers have a selection of fx and filters which don't slow down or limit the video at all.

    Sorry to enter the the bra-cup contest, but there are alternatives to software, and you don't need to compromise your video to have random access and fx.
  30. Amukidi

    Amukidi New Member

    It also depends on your working methods, I tend to spend a long time on each clip/piece, in the same way that I used to produce paintings and digital stills. I work mainly in the ambient / downtempo scene, so a lot of contemplative imagery and atmosphere are involved. Consequently, I don't need "Random access" - I just know what clip is where and pull it when required. To mix some of these clips in software at the resolution I want, I'd need a real monster of a PC and a couple of massive Hard Drives to go with it (some of them are 50 - 100 MB). Even using standard VHS, the resolution is fantastic - beautiful strong, saturated colour, crisp image quality and rock solid reliability. Using the first-generation MiniDV tapes, the resulting output is stunning. To top it all, this kit won't be out of date next year, and I'll be able to spend my fees on a couple of small DVD players and a burner! It is horses for courses, but at the risk of repeating myself, a $2000 laptop to mix and project small, heavily compressed clips - no thanks!

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