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don't rely too much on software

Discussion in 'Just Starting' started by sketchyj, May 8, 2005.

  1. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    VJ shoots your dog and rapes your sister....

    VJ rapes your dog and shoots your sister....

    Hmmmm....

    Billy Idol? Sure, he was hardcore...
    :crazyeyes :lol: :haha: :roll:
    Oh, now I know you're just being funny!
  2. Stuart

    Stuart New Member

    serious as a heart attack. I'm sure that the many of you who grew up with your music being spoon fed to you by MTV have a different idea of what Billy Idol is about but in 1976, when forming the band Chelsea (the progenitor of Gen X), he was punk rock through and through. By my math (not the new kind) Cobain was all of 9 at the time.

    sorry, just trying to keep with the spirit of a good flamewar <smooooch>
  3. sketchyj

    sketchyj New Member

    when i was 14 i thought that billy idol was the shit...the white wedding video was cool enough to disturb my parents. but i don't think billy will ever be seen by history as having the legendary status as a performer like cobain. perhaps i should have compared cobain with michael bolton or rick springfield in my analogy but the point is still the same. i'm sure vanilla ice has a lot of gigs under his belt too, should we revere him? how about MC Hammer? Kip Winger? need i go on?

    thank you Stuart for standing up, being a man, and clearing up what you meant by your words. Doesn't feel too good when people make assumptions, does it? I can sympathize about how you feel, yet you have to admit your words either needed to be cleared up or become ripe targets for scrutiny. I would just like to also say that anyone who would dare to claim that they gave a great VJ performance while they played canned content and sauntered around the club in the world of 2005 are a joke of a VJ. They are the rick dees of the VJ world. They are the Kasey Kasems. If you went to watch the Chemical Brothers perform what would you think if they were standing up there just chillin back. Sounded like to me you were advocating long loops and that sorta insults the performer who enjoys live performance in my view
  4. inopiaCGA

    inopiaCGA New Member

    I that's the case, I stand corrected. But you gotta agree with me that no program should ever do such a thing, hog a CPU/Core with nops :)

    And actually, it doesn't :) I grew up on demo programming, so I know a thing or two about graphics processing. 3D cards these days come equipped with a lot more than just raw polypushing power, and can easily be used for '2D' effects. It kinda means you're using your card for things it was meant to do, but it sure is a shitload faster than using your cpu. For instance, the vj system we (CGA) are working on uses pixelshaders do most RGB-space translations like brightness/contrast. And how do you think those cool postprocessing effects are achieven on xbox and ps2 games? That's all done with render2texture effects, no software processing involved whatsoever.

    I mean, the amiga had cooler graphics and demos than the atari st, partly because it had the blitter chip wich could move large chunks of memory around. In demos they used this feature to do 3D and 2D effects. Hardware doesn't discriminate between them, programmers do :)
  5. thomase

    thomase VJ Wunderkind

    just my two cents:

    first ofg all I thought grunge was nothing but slow punk anyway and I never lijed the attitude of Cobain ("I don't wanna be a rockstar" wince wince - DON'T SIGN A MAJOR DEAL, then...)

    Apart from that: If we want to stick to that analogy: Do you really think someone like Bowie played a real GOOD first gig without practice and experience? Don't think so...
  6. DrEskaton

    DrEskaton Triple Hexagon, Osaka



    it's useful when you want guarenteed real time performance for example for uncompressed video i/o or time critical audio programming.


    we're talking about two different things and you've missed my point.
  7. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    Why does this thread still exist? Softwareheads are no more likely to go hardware than gayboys are to go straight. To each his own and la-di-dah.

    One man's Billy Idol is the next guy's Pat Boone. Now stop comparing yourselves to people who were successful and well known. None of us has the squat to claim that level of importance.
    :rolleyes:
  8. DrEskaton

    DrEskaton Triple Hexagon, Osaka

    I'm not sure what that says about those of us with hybrid software/hardware rigs. less said the better I guess.....
  9. karl

    karl Sex, Drugs and Videogames

    yeah, thanks a lot Holly, now i gotta pay even more money to my therapist!
  10. karl

    karl Sex, Drugs and Videogames

    Just to be nitpicking i would say that 2d could or could not be faster than 3d. Especially on the Amiga since the blitter only could blitt in planar mode. So if you needed to say read a pixel, rotate it and draw it again you had to convert planar pixels to chunky, rotate it and convert back to planar. This made effects like rotation be slower than effects like plasma. Todays GPU?s has strongpoints and weakpoints just like this so there is noway to say if 2d is slower/faster than 3d without having to look at the actuall processing being done. This becomes especially troublesome when you have to read back data from the GPU, if that is an requirement for your process the time render will skyrocket.

    happy hacking
  11. inopiaCGA

    inopiaCGA New Member

    Well ofcourse, you can think a good use of every common misuse if you try hard enough. However, there are betters ways to solve such problems like using realtime priorities on processes and such, or simply using a realtime operating system. Also, we were (at some point anyway) talking about software and software quality. I was merely posting an example, and never intended to go into a pissing contest with you.

    You've seem to have missed mine entirely as well. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it though :)

    Finally someone who actually knows what he's talking about. I agree with you that if you're switching back and forth between GPU and CPU processing you are hogging the databus wich does serious damage to the framerate. But, I cannot think of any effects I would use that cannot be done entirely on the GPU (I'm sure you could think of some if you think hard enough though).

    On unified memory architectures (like the xbox) however, they can be mixed more easily. But can you say that either method is slow because it doesn't mix well with the other?
  12. DrEskaton

    DrEskaton Triple Hexagon, Osaka

    dude, chill. I was just pointing out there is sometimes applications where it's done.

    It's relevant cause I've seen very highend very stable commercial software that does stuff like this (locks a cpu for realtime processing).

    About the whole 2d processing thing, there's some circumstances that combinations of 2d filters will use more processing power than commonly done 3d transforms ok? eg if I render a scene with a bunch of 2d GPU filters on it, blurs, defocuses, glows,keys it quite possible the card will spend more cycles on the 2d processing than on rendering the scene.

    Just trying to make the point that it's not always true that 3d requires more computational power but I probably didn't explain it very well. Not trying to get in any competition with anyone.
  13. inopiaCGA

    inopiaCGA New Member

    Oh ah, in that case I guess we seem to agree :) I just though the example of realtime processing systems seems to be stretching the context of the original discussion a bit far for me. The post I replied to was about dtp and graphics (adobe and the like) programs and not about realtime processing systems (in wich case you're completely right)

    Anyway, why would a program need to actually reserve clockcycles? If the process is set to 'realtime' the other processes would only get cycles if the realtime process was blocked, or am I mistaken? This is not a discussion argument, just an honest question.
  14. Stuart

    Stuart New Member

    wasn't really clarifying, more like reiterating. It's all there in my 1P.

    as per the dead horse, I think cobain had the advantage of blowing off the top of his skull at a point in his career when he was really resonating with teen angst. Had Idol done the same after, say, recording ready steady go I'm sure he might garner a similar following. Instead he got old and became a successful pop rocker with a distinct punk influence. Happens to the best of them. To wit, Sting.



    Dr., surely there are many cases where a 2D effect will take longer to chug than a 3D one. As a general rule, however, I would be comfortable making the argument that that is not the predominant case.

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