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IPR and the internet - who cares

Discussion in 'Law & Ethics Discussions' started by deepvisual, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    Prompted by the recent direct rip off on CDM of the running tiger, I got to thinking about the pros and cons of IP theft..
    seems that more and more, people are quite happy to blatantly rip off other peoples work from youtube and the benefits of doing so far outweigh the negative consequences.

    No one seems to care anymore about who it was that was came up with an idea or who did it first, they just want to be the first to appropriate the idea for themselves or their product..
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  2. SilentEclipse

    SilentEclipse PH 5.9

    Someone once told me that agencys basically look through youtube/vimeo, find something they like that seems cutting edge, then make it themselves for a client..
  3. john01

    john01 5 quids worth of italics

    There's inspiration and then there's copying. Sometimes the copying is unintentional, and we all learn by imitation.

    If I was younger, more talented and less lazy I might have been inspired by the tiger to go out and do some mobile mapping, probably not an animal, I'd probably try to do something like map a live feed of 5 yards back down the road.
  4. john01

    john01 5 quids worth of italics

    you mean ad agencies?

    I know creative directors who refuse to copy, and others that do it blatantly. However advertising is extremely complicated these days, so just copying off Youtube is not really an option for a campaign, though you may find examples in the creative execution of part of a campaign.

    Hey ho, it's 10.30PM here in Tokyo, I'm still at work, another 12 hour day, and it's Friday, if only advertising were so simple as copying stuff off Youtube, my life would be much easier.

    ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czAfu3O-qg0[/ame]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2013
  5. many2

    many2 Active Member

    What happens even more often is that a client has seen something nice on the net and asks the agency or studio to do something similar. Happens all the time.
  6. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    Yup, Monkey See Monkey Do.

    Its just become one big ideas free-for-all. which is kinda sad really. IPR has totally turned on its head in some industries but not in others. You cant publish a photo of a photo of a can of soup, if it was taken by Andy Warhol, but you can copy someone else's projection exactly and take all the credit.
  7. many2

    many2 Active Member

    Well, I'd say that the video projection world is much like cooking : execution of cooking recipes is NOT protected by copyright or any other intellectual property laws as far as I know. I suppose the text of the recipe can be protected, just as any written text, but that still would not prevent anyone from using any recipe and even to sell the meals in a restaurant.

    Fashion is another industry with a similar set of very loose intellectual property protection. Unless you are selling faked Louis Vuiton handbags produced in china, you can copy the style of any designer and not fear any legal issues whatsoever.
  8. sleepytom

    sleepytom VJF Admin

    I don't get the obsession with this idea of originality. Nobody has every really cared who invented an idea.

    It is sad when a good idea from the art scene gets copied for comercial advertising (normally in a way which is poorly executed as well as unoriginal - see then endless Blu animated graffiti rip offs by ad agencies) but it is not surprising.

    In the case of the two tigers they both seem to be arts projects rather than adverts - in which case it could simply be a coincidence? Projection from a moving vehicle isn't new (i've done it at least 5 years ago for a music video shoot) and as soon as you try it you think of having the projection be of an animated person / animal. If you were to pick an animal to animate which one would you choose? Maybe a dog? perhaps you prefer cats? which is the most iconic cat, with a good high contrast fur colour that would work well projected?

    I can easily see this idea being invented twice by people.
  9. many2

    many2 Active Member

    I do get the idea of originality. While to a point nobody cares who really invented an idea, I can understand the value of being recognized as the creator of something fabulous. To come back to my cooking and fashion world examples, all chefs will want to be known for their recipes, and fashion designers for their clothes (even though they both might have borrowed the idea from someone else in the beginning) and I can understand it can be the same for video projections.
  10. sleepytom

    sleepytom VJF Admin

    It seems that some people are desperate to be credited as the "inventor" of something, regardless of how popular that thing is or isn't.

    In reality your only as good as your last gig. The people who do well are the ones who can sell their abilities to people with money. Often these people are not "the best" or "the inventor" of the thing they are doing.

    Obviously being credited with developing a technique is a nice complement, but it seems that many people these days are actively seeking such complements, by posting "documentation" type videos on youtube or even going so far as to apply for patents in an effort to claim they are the originators of a generic idea.
  11. many2

    many2 Active Member

    Shall we fear the arrival of the visual patent troll horde ? I really hope not but I must admit it's not that unlikely to happen. One or two occurrences hardly make a trend, but still there are some disturbing examples in other industries, that's for sure.
  12. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    I'm not so sure about the one or two...
    look at mapping.
    its global and its all the same 4 or 5 ideas copied ad infinitum.
  13. deepvisual

    deepvisual visually challenged

    I just want to pick up on this as I hear it a lot and have never yet understood what it means.

    I;ve done some dreadful gigs in my time. you are bound to cock up once in a while. but the week after its like it never happened?? So I;d say the opposite is true.
    you might not work for one particular client again, but it takes a helluva a lot to be ostracised in an industry that for example, considers drug addiction the norm.

    but you know, thinking on, maybe I am just old fashioned. When I was a kid, things like this were important. Who was the first man on the moon, who invented the telephone. I guess these things like a lot of others, are just irrelevant now.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  14. sleepytom

    sleepytom VJF Admin

    Maybe that is it, the list of actual firsts is less relevant today. We no longer have impressive feats of exploration to inspire the desire to be first at something. First Man on the Moon is impressive (and there was a genuine race to get to be first). First person to climb Everest is also impressive, but now 2000 people a year make it to the summit, and it has become yet another tourist destination.

    The firsts have become increasingly narrow "first under 14 year old to ski semi-assisted to the south pole" isn't really in the same class as the oldschool exploration feats.

    Projecting things really big is kind of the same - the biggest projections are easy to do, you simply throw money at it and wire up the pre-existing technology to make it happen. Nobody is really being genuinely innovative with projection technology and the claims of being "first" become increasingly ridiculous attempts at marketing (first 4D projection for example - 4D is just a made up term so being the "first" to do it isn't that impressive really!)

    Creative ideas have always been kind of different to other "firsts" creativity is a process of observation and inspiration followed by putting something into action. Being the first to think of an idea doesn't mean you'll be the first to actually do it. Being first to do something means little if nobody sees, and being first to be widely recognised for something is more about marketing than it is about actual creativity.

    On the "only as good as you last gig" thing yeah i dunno what it means either! I just wrote it as it's an industry catch phrase.. We've all done shockers in the past, I guess the real skill is learning from your mistakes and insuring the same problems don't come up again.
  15. john01

    john01 5 quids worth of italics

    people want familiarity as well as originality

    you'll listen to a favourite tune again and again because the predictability comforts you, but you will also listen to new music music because the unpredictability within a predictable framework excites you

    I cringe at the unoriginality of youth though
  16. Pesh

    Pesh Pixel Tosser

    to be fair, i'd consider both of the tiger videos to be ripoff of the 360 moving projection mapping installation they had in the Puma shop in Carnaby Street almost 10 years ago.

    it was basically a Puma walking along, climbing up and jumping between the shelves in the shop via a single projector on a moving head yoke.

    this clip in no way does the installation justice, and the technology available at the time was far from perfect considering what we have now, but the effort and originality of it stopped me and had me staring at it for a good while...

    ]Puma Store Projection - YouTube[/ame]

    a lot more effort must have gone into it than projecting a 2 second loop of a tiger running out of the side of a Transit

    and a lot more interesting than the blocks coming out of the wall approach to projection mapping.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2013

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