Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Thelooca, Apr 20, 2012.
some people here might be interested...
i actualy quite like the look of this. will be interesting to see what its like in real life.
I saw it but have serious reservations on price (unannounced but knowing Roland 3x more than competitors) and delay caused by all the scalers.
It looks great I think. Seems like they took on board the comments about their last effort in hd switching. I'm pleased to see a multiviewer. Not sure anyone needs 4 composite inputs at this point in time but I suppose they smooth the transition for people with little / no hd gear. It will be interesting to see how much input latency there is on it.
Price will also be an interesting question.
Looking at its product page it actually looks very well thought out http://www.roland.com/products/en/V-800HD/
This could be the modern VJ mixer that we've been asking for. It's really great to see almost all of my comments about the V-1600HD addressed in this product.
Lets hope they price it sensibly, if the price is right then it will be a popular product with lots of hire companies. It fits well as a transitional device for people bridging the old and new worlds of event production.
Could this be the second vision mixer to make it into production based upon the spec i outlined in 2009?
Obviously it would be silly to claim credit for this, but it does please me that we are finally getting a choice of things which are well thought out products with specs and functionality which actually make sense.
Looks great... This place here reckons about $14K tho
i really hope that is not the real price. It seems to be double what it should cost to be competitive.
its roughly 10000 euro street price, which is soemthing I expected as roland used to price their gear quite often about a third above the competition. AV rentals will get it for much less, 6-7000 euros if bought in bulks. which should set the final rental price to something realistic like 250 euros/day or so.
What I'm really after is something that comes out in the V4's original type of price point. I realise this is asking a lot though and unrealistic
Like the Atem TV Studio?
Really I'd of hoped Roland would of been taking notice of the falling cost of everything and priced this mixer at around £5k. This would of made it competitive with the similar products from analogway, tvone, blackmagic et al.
Even Sony and Panasonic have digital hd mixers at the £5k price point. Why do Roland think this is worth double that?
exchange rates probably.
Being a japanese company is a problem with the yen being so high
Aren't Sony and Panasonic both also from Japan?
Really Edirol / Roland have dropped the ball with their video products. When the LVS 800 came out I would of brought one if it had been £1500. It was more than double that. Today it still lists for £3000 this is absurd for a composite vision mixer in 2012.
I have always viewed the vision mixer price as needing to match the cost of cameras which will be mixed by it. Today I can go out with 3 grand and have a choice of cameras to buy which have HDSDI outputs. There is also a choice of hd vision mixers to use with these cameras. Sadly there is not a product from Roland Edirol in this price bracket.
Anyone who went to BVE this year would of seen the little roland stand with few if any customers. My chat with them was enlightening as they told me that their new composite AV mixer was designed for low cost web streaming, where people didn't want or need digital HD mixing. The queues of people at the Blackmagic stand looking at their £700 hdsdi switcher and asking about streaming compatibility told a different story though.
(Phil if you read this don't take offence. I am greatful for the support that you and Edirol have given the Vj scene over the years. But the current products are too expensive for tech based on video standards from the 1980s. This new mixer looks great but it has to be priced realistically. Go and look at the prices you can get Analogway gear for. Even the Barco Screen Pro is affordable these days. This new switcher is basic in its fuctions and should be affordable, or it will be hard to sell any. )
to be honest, I never fully understood the Roland way of decision making regards design features, pricing and target market, so I just assume its a "japanese" thing especially with a manufacturer which doesn´t considers video as its core market. Roland is always associated with groundbreaking audio gear, with some iconic pieces dating back as late as the 80ties still cheering their fanbase. this mixer might not be prived competetively but it offers some kind of prosumer all-in-one solution which seems like even a dumbo AV rental helphand can handle without consulting the manual, whereas analogway, extron and the others are more aimed at the broadcast end or indie professionals, with rackmount units plus control interfaces aimed at specific tasks. broadcast gear looks in a certain way unfinished to people who are less involved. the Roland/Edirol Stuff resembles a user friendliness with design aspects looking familiar to consumer equipment, in which case people are paying for a brand identity rather than for a particular feature.
It really shouldn't be unrealistic. a basic 4 in 2 channel (with a crossfader/t-bar/midi/whateverthefuckingcontrol) hdmi mixer 5 years after everything went hd? ffs!
But the ATEM mixers do just that, apart from the crossfader control... But couldn't that be mapped to midi or OSC or even DMX with their SDK?
Yes it could.
There is already an arduino based control solution for the Atem. You could do midi via arduino or via a pc / mac using the official SDK. Or just buy the Atem control panel which is very affordable for what it is
This new Roland switcher offers some advantages such as being multiformat and having analogue inputs and outputs. But it is hard to justify the huge cost increase to get these features when you could spend a lot less money on a pure digital hd switcher and buy a few low cost scalers and converters to go with it.
I don't really agree with Devon regarding ease of use either. Most pro gear is easy to use, eg I've never even seen a manual for an Image Pro. It's also unfair to call AV rental techs "dumbo" most of the techs I know are quite skilled where the majority of vjs havent ever looked in the setup menu of their V4.
There is fuck all point selling prosumer gear for top dollar prices, their is maybe a niche market in church media for such products but few churches are happy to spend an extra 10k just for slightly better ease of use,when they can spend a grand on training
Baxshop.nl has put a price tag on the mixer: http://www.bax-shop.nl/videomixers/roland-v-800hd-live-hd-videomixer/product-details.html
So about 9000 euro excl taxes. Expensive but lower price then i expected. Hope to read/see some good reviews when it launches!
€9k isn't too bad i suppose. However it is out of the reach of most VJs. If they could find a way to cut another €3-4k off then it would be within range.
If i were them I'd do another version where the composite inputs are missing (along with the expensive upscalers) Have 4 HDSDI inputs which run at either 1080i or 720p (all must be the same format), have 4 universal DVI-I inputs with scalers. Keep the rest of the mixer the same and cut 4 grand off the price. Then sell them like hot cakes.
Perhaps you or someone with time and devotion should put your idea on http://www.kickstarter.com/ ...
av rental helphand is somewhat different than av rental tech. unfortunately if you hire stuff you mosttimes come by the average helphand and not the skilled techie. except you pay for one really, I value skills but I condemn the trend to put untrained people in positions where indepth knowledge is crucial.
and well, Tom, you are not the common customer. you belong to the shrinking minority of people who know their stuff inside out. as opposed to some venue techie who helplessly sits in front of a freshly delivered v-440 and tries to get the damn thing to scale a composite in to a vga out.
regards this mixer I dont see a reason to own one even if the price came down to 5000 bucks. its something thats best to be permanently installed in larger venue to replace their old vision mixers. conference halls, universities, trade fairs, large scale event locations. basically everywhere, where random people come to plug their wahtever into the system and want
some kind of imagery displayed to whatever playout device they have.
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