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Orginal content

Discussion in 'Creating Content' started by Rovastar, Nov 15, 2002.

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  1. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    I wonder how many VJ's out there are using ONLY their own material for sets.

    And the stuff that is used from other people (TV clips, DVD, internet, screensaver, whatever) how much is in the public domain and allowed to played freely and how much is 'stolen' ;):)(Films, stuff without permission, etc)

    Me: Original (my own) stuff or all free in the public domain or have express permission to play the stuff as a public performance.
  2. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    This has came up countless times b4, on eyecandy and elsewhere on these video forums....
    Personally I really don't think it matters were it comes from, just that the quality of the clip is good, and more importantly, how well it is played with the music, is what matters to me...:cool:
  3. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    I know it goes off all the time I just wondered how many actual purists there are out there. Some ppl might use dowload content that might not be noticed but would draw the line at say hollywood films.

    Just with the thread about music videos and stuff I just wondered how many ppl could lieterally record 5 minutes of the set (in theory) for a music video.

    Oh that advert site eye candy is not vjforums.:)

    Edit: So how much of your content is your own vjpixy?
  4. sofarok

    sofarok New Member

    Sad bastard and proud of it.

    Does the same go for music producers who sample? Djs who cut up old breaks etc? What about Marcel Duchamp? Or the pop artists? I think there is difference between ripping of an hours worth of film and using 30 seconds for a loop.
  5. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    Hey brother J-
    I can honestly say that I put in as many, if not more hours, in a day as any on this forum making and manipulating footage into art...If you think of that as thievery, you don't have to like it, and you are entitled to yer opinion, so you don't have to support it..
    Just remember that I'm.....
    "Free to do any ole thing, any ole thing that I want." holy shit!!! I just stole that song phrase, and it is now public...<ole boy I really did it now...ehhhheheh>

    Chances are if you want good hi-rez video that is different enuf from the average VJ, you wont be able do any of what you accusse me of anyhow, and if you spend time with purely your own DIY creations, then I would say ole chap...that it might endup becoming a bit dry by the end of the nite..........Hmmm:eek: I guess I am a little more radical, than a play it by the rules or you die kinda guy>>>
  6. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    100% own made sometimes sampling :it's the best way and legit sure cyber uses alot of manga though when he started out(!) but now he's also making his own. trick: start out sampling , get paid get books make your own stuff it feels alot better when your doing your "magic" on the mx/laptop

    peace and progress
  7. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    ps: from the knowledge gained from making your own footage you can expand..commercials ,music video's whatever LEARN USE GET PAID :D
  8. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    The funnny thing about this thread is the first two people (maybe the only 2:)) that posted with there 100% real content supported are the first two I thought off.

    I haven't seen any of Primebases work / noticed any comments on this issue but I guessed from his style of posts that he was 100% orginal.

    I know jorjo's view. :)

    Also VJ Kriel from the high profile work and his arty stance he does I imagine he is 100% original too.

    Primebase's view of it is fine to start with is more fine/realistic to me. Starting out cool use you anything out there (I may not like it but I understand the scorem but they will be doing smaller gigs - in theory)

    If you are doing massive gigs I honestly would be careful but that is for the copyright thread.

    I wasn't trying to make this thread elitist, x is more professional then because y etc.

    Maybe I was just wondering where people that frequent VJ forums were 'at'. MAybe also thinking what to do with my own 'content' that is freely available and how people view others content and how/what they do with it.

    Also how would others feel if their own content was used by others esp if it was a gig you could have got/wanted!!?

    ANswers on a postcard please.

    I used to be ok everyone could use my stuff but I'm starting to think differently.
  9. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    It is perfectly fine with me to remix others work, and I welcome anyone, even DR. J to remix mine...Nuff said...
  10. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    Do you make anything at all of your own or just take others work?

    Do you mix or do you just play a video tape/DVD of others work. Press play on a Accidtive Tv transambient CD or spoomething maybe a copied DVD of it.

    I really hope you make it big so the orginal authors can sue and for all you have got. OR maybe someone could steal a gigs from you by play a tape of all your stuff.

    You give visuals in clubs a bad name.

    :sad: :sad: :sad:
  11. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    I would never use other's DVD's to play out...purely software and 80% of my own clips...
    That said. I think that you staight liners are what hold VJing back...anarchy is were it is at...if you don't like it, become a damn lawyer and sue me....:alien:
  12. hamageddon

    hamageddon Motion Mapping Looper

    like this one Mr. J.?:D

  13. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    Well now 100% original, goes down to 90%...I am not trying to start flame wars here, but am honest enuf with my self to know that I will never be 100% original for any of my VJ gigs...I think anyone claiming 100% original is just lieing thru their teeth:D

    PPL say they are 100 %, cause it makes them feel like they are better than the rest of us...They are indeed elitest...If you truely are 100%, then I can asume that you have never used a pic or clip of a city building, park, or monument either??
    Oh gorget using peeps in your shot, unless you made them too...

    Rova and J,
    get off your high horse, and come down to a real world place, or keep yer elitism and political backwash to your selfs...
    Else it may come back to haunt you...:nod:
  14. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    lol How many other 'professions' have the viewpoint of anarchy is good.

    NIce to see you have some moral on what you play and how much is your own stuff.
  15. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    lol rova...I just am trying to be honest in what I do, and if more "professionals" were anarchists, then we wouldn't have to reley on the real bottom feeding scum sucker lawyers to do our battling...:)
  16. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    was gonna leave the thread alone but pixy's on that vendetta shit!!! prime is a group of six and we've been together for over 4 years now(!) that's four years of hard work lots of rendertime ,filming shooting throwing your after effects/combustion book away out of PURE frustration of not getting it, fighting, almost giving up, to late at the venue because of a crash,.but also vj's coming to you with "how did you do that" to "i'm gonna quit I'm never gonna be that good" (HA) and fans saying "fuck this is the best thing I've seen when are you playing again" to the smallest venue to the more luxorious outing all about hard work. don't fucking flame me or we are going to get the first vj battle on this forum : you'll never leave this thread without shame ... I love people but I hate lies and mis truths.

    that said: sure if you need a picture of a monument like ..the grand canyon or some shit like that it would suck to go all the way to the us and take a pic : that's stupid thinking . it's just WACK to make NOTHING or only 10% of your gig. that's just sad. you learn resolume download some clips and tADA your a vj. sad shit!!! in holland you wouldn't get a gig even if you promised to $@#@#@! the organiser. (self censoring is cool no?) all own shit and a concept behind it makes that stuff dope I don't like Micha Klein but he at least as my respect cos he made his ugly ass pillman on his own.

    as for sampling: love that shit AS LONG AS YOU GIVE IT YOUR FLAVOUR. not just making it loop on the "beat". sample lover (make music to) it's like an instrument you make it sound/look like you want it to. took a valley of the dolls film cutout the 70s shit and made here a giant in a old godzilla flick...and that was just a sketch in Combust I threw out.

    please please pixy pleaaaaaaaase do NOT even hint towards my credibility I still love you as a person man but I hate mis truths on nuthin' but assumptions

    as for rova and j : you do what you do cats originalty/creativitiy makes this world a better place for real. peace !

    (primebase feeling a lot better now, rolling a blunt...chilling with flash)
  17. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    ....uhm I'm relaxed now.... sorry for the harsh tone but it just get's to me if people even HINT towards me or my crew...it's just annoying...and very unproffesional ;)

    LEVLHED gear whoreder

    oh great...here goes another one of "those" threads again....

    a value judgement is a value judgement is a value judgement.

    I hate it when people come here and start calling names and making assumptions/threats/etc over...what? A difference in opinion?
    Please, make your opinion known, own your opinion and leave it at that...
    as an editor, I will not hesitate to edit/delete/ban threads or members anymore...
    No, I am not GOD nor do I think I have all the answers nor do I presume any moral high ground, but I do know a thread that is ultimately detrimental to the community when I see it....I'm not seeing that here yet, but I think everyone can see where this thread could be heading.
  19. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    hey prime, and Rova and J, brother or not....
    Sorry if I offended you, I wasn't making the comment to anyone personally...I have paid my dues as well, and sometimes feel the need to speak my mind...It is nothing personally, it is a metion on the competetive nature of this VJ business...I have played in A'Dam @ mazzo, and have seen plenty of other dutch VJ's live... What I see is pure competition, because of so many ppl getting into it...I can understand both J's and Rovva's points about trying to be all original...I think most VJ's do what they can to be original...I also understand the anger of less experienced VJ's not paying there dues...
    But, thinking up a blank phrase like me stealing thier work is absurd...That is just pure 'ego' working there....IE>' My work is so original and good, that it must be worth stealing'... well if you feel that way, then don't make it public, and don't put it out on a tape or DVD...
    I prefer the "Gratful Dead" model of: let anyone tape our shows, cause we are that good!!!!
    Don't worry about who is playing who's video, It won't get you anwhere; Worry about getting the Peeps so used to seeing video all the time and everywhere, and demanding it when it isn't available...
    IMHO, Much better for the collective as a whole....:)

    Yea I need a blunt sometimes..and sorry bout any assumptions of you all...
  20. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    pix no probs : my reply was too harsh anyway , I felt kinda bad after the reply button .. so it's all good man. Lev chill man! just a little name calling didn't hurt nobody :) and could you do that?(deleting banning etc??) I think it's a good thing actually: it's a topic where a lotta vj's feel very strongly about: is a vj. making content or buying "records"? pix got it right : the vj scene in holland is almost fierce. and it's not a ego prob however but more in a breakdance battling kinda way. I like it like that because a) it forces you to make yourself extra special and b) it keeps the market stable. rookies can't start until they have work that is different from what you normally see. that's why I always hammer on the content issue because later on everywhere it's going to be that part where you can separate the "men"/"women" from the mice. in holland it's already there I guess.. the world wil follow. 2 the same products the one is going for a simple ad campaign the other for a approach that fits the target audience : who will get the money?

    ps the mazzo !! it was our first spot in our city!!!! what night the saturday?
  21. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    Re mazzo: I VJ'ed with Captain Video(Kees and Rob) on their monthly there..
    I think it was a thursday nite...

    Yea, I have to agree with Prime on all of that...The more motivated VJ's will shine above the rest...It is all how hard are you willing to work to get there, and how much time you really want to devote to it...
    The art snobbery should be left outta the mix, or else we'll end up becoming stuffy video art politicians... I am not about making VJing into a pissing contest...:p

    LEVLHED gear whoreder

    OK, so now that it seems Jorjo has (once again) made his value judgement on the whole copyright issue perfectly clear, maybe we can get back to actually answering the question?

    I started out using no original content, as most VJs do...then managed to get enough original stuff together to contribute to the CDR exchange, which got me a TON of other VJs material that I had permission to use...now I'm almost to the point where I use all original stuff...

    the real-world atmoshpere of the copyright issues for VJs is:
    -in a live performance, anything goes...(issues of taste/tact aside)
    -if you distribute a DVD/VHS as a product or something similar, you damn well better own it..
  23. Primebase3

    Primebase3 Prime Member (Jules)

    that's cool if you wanna do that I don't like the idea of someone else mixing with my hard work! it's the question again : is a vj someone that mixes his own content or is he buying records. to each his own , but if you made something and you have a residency at a venue , you swapped cdr on the exchange and somebody else goes under your price with your 48 hour render footage at the same venue? that's evil man! and you can go with your "trust your fellow man" but trust and downright handing out footage like santa is crazy! never gonna and never will just my opinion. not in holland anyway ^^ I like the idea of records/dvds though if you buy a dvd for 40 euro and a agreed statement which state that you can't undermine the workplaces of the supplier/vj ? which is also legally hard to control. I know I know it's all business with me but it's an art as well : van gogh bought a picture of picasso and a few years later it's famous under van gogh's name...picasso would scratch his ears..both :)

  24. eXhale

    eXhale video magician

    The discussion on "what is a VJ" lasted long enough Jorjo, it has been closed and will not restart here. As I already made it quite clear on that other thread, this forum is for anyone who project visuals on or with music, period.

    LEVLHED gear whoreder

    Jorjo, you ARE plainly passing judgment.....you're also turning this thread into another one of your rediculous elitist/egotistic soap-boxes...been there/done that...I think we've all had enough of it, obviously except for you...you've now made it impossible for anyone to post here without fear of being "a thieving bastard" who you've alluded to being deserving of a shotgun down the throat...really nice, man...way to foster healthy debate and conversation.

    Your "debates" are anything but....and your definition of "VJ" is completely different than everyone elses... WE'VE HEARD IT ALL FROM YOU BEFORE. Anyone who hasn't just needs to look for the only closed thread on the forum....
  26. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    Pablo also recognized that business and art do not go together..:D

    "The people who make art their business are mostly imposters".
    -Pablo Picasso
  27. will

    will techMARK1000

    you know how hip hop dj's battle it out, well has vj'ing reached that level cos i can see a battle here, would be pretty mental
  28. apu

    apu Jigsaw Crew

    i am a thieving bastard

    Yes i have to admit it, i am a theiving bastard. damn that shotgun blast was close to hitting me:) and the gun oil tastes like shit too.

    Being a rank amateur I have to start somewhere. But I dont want to be a thieving bastard all my life. Thats why i walk around like a nerd/tourist with my dv cam everywhere i go so i can build my own stockpile of material.

    In the meantime I watch and learn from others and sometimes take a bit of footage from tv/dvd/video/net to use, and hopefully oneday make the transition to the level of a demigod like Jorjo so we can all be rich enough to pay our way and be 100% legit.

    Just as a matter of interest. how much do you have to pay for a minute of legit star wars footage? can the lowly vj wannbes afford to attempt to transition to legit footage?

    My first ever set was 75% made from (non vj) footage i "scored" off the net, the other 25% was my own logo and text shit. I would never use another vj's work. That is lame. My next one hopefully will be 50% legit and hopefully the next one will be even more and so on and so on.

    I think if you are underground as such, then anything goes to an extent. But if you are going to go big and professional then you better have your shit together or you could end up in a nasty court trial or even worse. Death by choking on a shotgun........
  29. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    ....OKAY, the Pablo quote is only referenced(again nothing personal) to say that when ever business does get involved with art, then business is what dirties it..
    Again, I fairly well agree with Prime and the others about wanting to protect what is there own...Noo Problem....If VJ material is traded, and played out by another VJ that didn't make it, it's not the end of the world...
    Most major VJ sites on the internet do condone this...Just look at
    http://www.audiovisualizers.com with their loop trading service,
    and http://www.electronica-optica.com with downloadable loops made available to play out...
    Even Resolume has a great database of links for sites freely putting up video archives...

    I can understand that this is important to you, and probably your income as well. So you feel threatened by what you percieve as theives, taking others ppl's work, and making money with it (it isn't that easy)...It is natural to feel embattled over it. Funny thing how this business climate works..usery is a vicious cycle, and it is how our capitalistic/business world works....being proprietary means, always wanting to control and manipulate the system with rules and laws, to keep what you have...(and then some) They do it by getting lawyers to do there dirty work, and eliminating competition..
    Someday you will want to pass on what you know and have learned to others, but you will be so tied up in the legallities of it all, that you won't know who to trust...

    I think best, to just agree to disagree on this issue, and let bygones be bygones...
  30. vjpixylight

    vjpixylight AKA Will O' The Wisp

    VJC is also a place where 90% of the VJ's aren't making a living Vjing, so don't treat them like dirt, unless your wanting it in your face...

    If being professional means you gotta have an attitude like yours, well then I just have to say, "steer me clear of that iceberg, Martha".

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