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retro style = joshua light show

Discussion in 'The Business Side' started by MarcelFilm, Aug 28, 2003.

  1. MarcelFilm

    MarcelFilm New Member

    hey all...not a VJ...am a director...got here via an SF DJs spesh & jondi...wrote concept for a PSA with PDFA that calls for a filmore-east-nuveau-rave-style projected light show with colored oils, etc formerly known as a Joshua Light show (janice joplin era)....looking for VJ who uses this style and who can get behind non-profit anti-drug for national press and tv exposure...love to talk to all of you, and give details...email is: marcelfilm@earthlink.net

    admin...if I'm in foul, put me right. just want to make contact with the artists.
  2. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    Hi Marcel(?)

    Forgive me if I seem to misinterpret your post, but as a VJ I have to say this: Unless you are doing a retro/period spot about the 60's, oil+water visuals are going to look..., well, old. I humbly submit that if you want to reach people who are currently likely to try/use drugs for the first time, it might help to use a VJ as the provider of up-to-date visuals. A lot has changed since the Joplin era.

    Please take a moment to look through Links to VJ showreels and see what is the current standard for club/rave visuals.

    Again, if your intention is to recreate a scene from the 60s I'm probably wasting your time, but I hope you will reconsider a more modern approach.
  3. MarcelFilm

    MarcelFilm New Member

    holly thank you for your response! I watched your featured work...very cool.

    the idea is this...knowing what we all know about life and consquences to the actions we take, it always seems so strange that we need to repeat the patterns of gaining knowledge again...and again - an endless cycle. Even the way we create art with the new technologies starts over again from patterns and points already explored by those gone before us. nothing is truly new and standards shift with fashion - it's those who pull consciously and pointedly from the past who create the resonating 'new'.

    I actually am not re-creating a scene from the 60's. I'm only using a 'lo-fi' light show technique to base an updated style on, and connect the viewer to a timeless sensation. the name "joshua light show" is from the joplin era, but the art and technique have survived...in fact evolved into what you do now.

    I'm looking for a VJ who knows how to affect this style. perhaps I'm in the wrong area with this search?

    again, thanks so much!

    LEVLHED gear whoreder

    I guess I'm still not sure what you're looking for...are you looking for someone with an oil-light, or a VJ who's video has a similar effect?
  5. MarcelFilm

    MarcelFilm New Member

    PSA=nat'l exposure


    I'm looking to meet (via email, phone, in person) and speak with as many VJs as I can in order to discuss the project, it's intent, my vision, your vision and possibilities.

    what I've posted is an over simplification (for many reasons) of a very unique concept for this venue (PSA)...the project will be broadcast nationally and the campaign calls for TV and radio, which we have designed this project to incorporate.

    I am on a fairly tight production schedule, so if anyone out there is interested please contact me.


  6. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    A few of us could probably recreate the feel of a liquid light show on video, or perhaps arrange the real thing for your shoot. I understand your deadlines. Please understand our caution and tepid replies. I can't speak for everyone here, but "PSA" translates to "free unless otherwise notified". Your idea does not provide a likely opportunity for volunteer work because:

    1) It will most likely not be an opportunity to show our personal style or what we can do with the current state of the art in the medium.... It is therefore unlikely to lead to paid work in the future.

    2) while I'm sure we would all promote responsible behavior, we have also rolled our eyes at anti-drug propaganda and are unlikely to involve ourselves in what we would feel to be an unrealistic message designed to alarm parents that actually harms the reputation of our industry. I have seen positive PSAs and they show responsible teens calling home from a party and parents opening a dialog with their kids. The positive PSAs do not show teens making "bad choices" like getting shot and raped and funding terrorism.

    If this is a paid opportunity please say so and those willing to do custom visuals work will contact you for details about the job. If this is a free gig "for a good cause" please understand that we have many opportunities to give our visuals away in a more positive envirionment that does not have the stigma of teens perpetually making the same mistakes as they have throughout history....
  7. Rovastar

    Rovastar /..\

    PSA ????? What's that?
  8. Kriel

    Kriel Trailer Trash

    Public Service Announcement. They're adverts for charitable causes that commercial broadcasters in America are required to run a certain number of daily, by their license agreement. Agencies and directors often make PSAs (gratis) as a way of showing what they can do outside the normal ad-agency/client constraints.

    Youth against drugs ... I dunno ... I'm not so young anymore ...
  9. brain

    brain New Member

    to combine heavy 60s psychedelic aestetics with an anti-drug statement seems a bit weird to me (especially if it's the SF filmore which to me is associated with thousands of people dropping acid decades ago)...

    and aren't you us people having serious trouble with legal consequences when creating a environment which seems fit for psychedelic substance (ab)use?

    i mean if i imagine a vj playing seriously trippy visuals at a broadcasted event that "recreates" old-time ("high") atmosphere, is that not likely to get him into trouble for promoting drug use?

    is the message "be wild and far-out like in the old days but don't touch dope" ??

    or is it some tongue-in-cheek "anti-drug" cover-up?

    me dunno neither... :confused:
  10. robotfunk

    robotfunk Feed your Machine

    interesting, you seem to want us to use drug related visuals to make anti drug visuals, for free, erm good luck mate.
  11. eXhale

    eXhale video magician

    could work, doublespeak is common nowadays ;)
  12. MarcelFilm

    MarcelFilm New Member

    again, thanks for the responses. I feel that this has deteriorated because of my lack of clarity, so let me try to remedy that.

    Rovastar wrote: PSA ????? What's that?

    A) PSA is a Public Service Announcement - in the US it's formatted like a commercial, and is a recognized method of communicating to the pubilc at large that is subsidized thru tax exemption, corp and union donations (Kodak provides free film, SAG actors work Gratis), federally mandated free broadcast time and pro bono work. They are a freedom-of-speech chance for a wide variety of communities across the country to put forth ideas that are generally accepted as helpful to our society. Tens of thousands of creative professionals work on them - gratis (for free) - year after year for personal or political or professional-political or personal-professional reasons, but coming together under the idea of affecting change at some level.

    most PSA's suck and I'm doing this to affect some change, hopefully, in the way they are executed and the way the message is delivered.

    the VJ participation will be pro bono...without monetary compensation, like mine, and like the DJs and the actors and the CG artist, etc. professional relationships and national exposure is all that is offered...as stated previously.

    Sorry to be pedantic, if I was. I just want any interested parties to understand the beast I'm talking about.

    holly...while I can certainly understand your caution...thanks for the link - insightful...you all seem a much more empassioned and opinionated crowd than to give tepid responses!

    your encompassing, and pre-emptive, subscription to the idea that this project is..."unlikely to lead to paid work in the future." is simply wrong.

    that depends entirely on the VJs desire and ability to work collaboratively and impose thier style within conceptual perimeters. I'm looking for the VJ who is interested in exploring that kind of work. Of course an auteur would be inapropriate and frustrated in this kind of work, and would likely not contact me.

    it's all about the relationships, exposure and name recognition.

    the problem with PSAs is that so many suck - they possess an overall tone of self importance, a symptom of old white guys setting the standard for message format. what you likely don't know about PSAs is that legally the message and claims have to be vaild and verifiable; so if someone is saying they got raped like that...they got raped like that. the mistake of the PSA is trying to pick the most impacting story, and relying on that to support the whole message, it never holds up. doesn't mean it's unrealistic, or that by making young girls aware of that story that they won't party more responsibly and be more aware of thier surroundings - which is what living truly is - and what those messages really are about. life, living, creating...it's all messy...and risky.

    I can't respond to the negative/positive thing...too long.

    sorry to go into all this...I felt I had shake off the major bad-vibe-gravy holly poured all over my effort here w/o spending an ounce of energy to contact me to find out the real story.

  13. MarcelFilm

    MarcelFilm New Member

    sorry, all...I'd love to post the concept treament (which would clarify the approach quite a bit) but I just can't.

    the message is to party responsibly. Be aware of your actions. Make choices you are clear about.

    the target drug is Ecstasy.

    the target aud is teen girls who are one time users or inexperienced with mdma

    please contact me to discuss if interested:


    thankz all! so not tepid!

    LEVLHED gear whoreder

    don't blame holly, I think she very adeptly summarized what the majority of us feel...and she didn't make the gravy, the RAVE act and every other misleading "just say no" PSA to date made it....understand that such rediculous legislation directly influences how many work oppourtunities exist for VJs.
  15. holly

    holly WetCircuit.com

    Let me guess: girl goes to party drops ecstacy for the first time and gets raped. It's targeted to teen girls because they have all the responsibility in the world when they get raped. It's the GIRL's fault! Yeah ? and I'm the one pouring bad-vibe gravy:rolleyes: riiiight..... Howabout some idiot wannabe director in New York goes to a party and gets ass-raped after a few too many martinis. Aw, where is this PDFA so I can submit my version of a PSA and get a budget to push my sermon! NEWS FLASH! Women aren't victims and ecstacy will NOT get you raped.

    I've tried to be overly polite and explain how things might be perceived here, which as anyone here can attest is NOT in my nature. Now I'm going to tell you straight: go to a mall and buy a couple of blacklights and an oil lamp from SPENCERS because there's not a single one of us who would be spending less than that wasting our time and equipment with your bullshit. Every single one of us IS an auteur making our OWN art and not looking for freebies with no pay and no recognition. Take your negative propaganda anti-female shit and fly away, Jerk-off.

    By the way, I'm jumping at the chance to VJ "on the radio", Oh, not MY vj but whatever out-of-date crap YOU think we evolved from ? trays of water and oil, puh-lease. FOR FREE no less and with no acknowledgement of my art.... Buh-bye.
  16. vjnixmix

    vjnixmix Video Mixin' Vixen

    wowie zowie

    I just approached this thread after LEV said he thought it sounded interesting.

    Which, allthough we may not get monetary value from it - I think it is. Here you have someone trying to change the so common image of an anti-drug PSA. Do we not support the people who are trying to come up with more modern ways to approach the anti-drug war? Yes holly you have a point that the Anti-drug laws are coming down the ladder to eventually destroy the opportunities we have to perform, but please do not shun someone that may be fighting the same war.

    Marcel, I am only writing this to re-assure you that whatever angle you may be approaching your concept from, (which I hope it is as I stated above) all thoughts and talk about projects are welcome on VJForums. While there may be more political undertones to yours that does not mean that other members may be interested in being involved in your cause.

    I may be wrong, but I thought you were citing the rape thing as an example.... Holly maybe kicked into "Feminist mode" a little soon on that one. No offense Holly ... but try not to scare people with ideas away if you don't agree. If I were Marcel after that last response I would prolly not want to talk about my projects on these boards ever again... and that is really not a good thing.

    Peace, Miss Nix
  17. Kriel

    Kriel Trailer Trash

    Holly's 100% on-message and 100% right.

    American media don't handle these issues realistically. They handle it through a veneer of fundamentalist politics. Which doesn't help anyone who's just necked 4 Mitsubishis. That person needs real information, not real morality speak.

    f you wanna know how to do proper PUBLIC SERVICE handling of drug issues, try going here, to BBC's One Life. NO WAY an American TV station is going to be able to do something like this.

    And until they can, I think creative visual talents are going to be a lot better off producing their own info-mercials on drugs and putting them online.

    Cause anything realistic and on-message isn't gonna get run on an American TV station, or radio station -- ever.
  18. MarcelFilm

    MarcelFilm New Member


    it would be wholly unfair for me to respond to holly's post...

    but I much prefer the 'straight' response than the mayoral politeness.

    thanks all.
  19. unjulation

    unjulation Moderator

    actualy by not responding all you are doing is confirming hollys perception of what you are doing to outhers who have been reading this very interesting discusion
  20. bluntfaktory

    bluntfaktory New Member

    try contacting "Imaginary Forces" , they're what you seem to be looking for ! here is a page with cool film titles , try the one from the Island of DR.Muro , something like that might work for what you doing . be careful not to make it look too cool , you don't want to spark someone's curiosity !

  21. tybalt

    tybalt Artificial Lifeform

    I am with Holly on this one 100%

    Not only they are trying to buy us out NO they try to get us for free to send the BrainWashed Couch Potatos another of their white male Middle Class "be good" message... Oh god... how far has America Come? Now that the money is running out (because of a war that can not be afforded) they are trying to play the communist "oh its for a good cause" thing...

    Marcel SHOW US YOUR WORK... Show us why WE should trust you to deliver a NEW message to the MassPopulation in America. I have not seen anything in American TV in the last decade that was even a bit modern or offensive in any regard... it seems everything shown in american tv is signed by this StupidWhiteBoyInWashington....

    Your country is holding other countries back from legalising Dope f.e. Your country is setting some "moral" feeling into the world that is plainly WRONG. There will be no trust from us who fight this view with all things we have - why should we support a media format that has always done damage in this regard (at least in america - I did an interview lately that was shown almost uncut where I stated that drug use is everyones own bussiness and that if you feel like trying out you should! Try to resend this interview in America plz) The PSAs I have seen where complete 80s BS.... And I just warn any VJ to go this route for free. Let them at least pay you the capitalist way if you can?t resist it....

    nice honest post holly....
  22. julez

    julez Syn.thesia Visuals

    hmm looks like we're gonna get onto an anti-american government/media consoritium rant here. If i've interpreted some of these posts correctly, I think you've stepped into a bit of a minefield here Marcel.

    From what i've just read about PSA's there's a very similar thing in Australia showing a guy getting the crap beaten out of him after he gets drunk and then a flashback and him making a "better" decision. All this kind of advertising does is generate contempt for those that create it...and i agree completely with fALk, u have to prove to us that u are trying to steer away from this backwards and simplistic view.
    When i read this thread i thought u seemed like a reasonable guy and that u genuinely wanted to do something about useless PSA's but u won't get anywhere buy insulting people.
    The other thing is that u haven't explained to us properly what ur aims/concept/actual technique u're trying to use, is. This whole thing is starting to look dodgy to me. Anyone here is going to be naturally suspicious of anyone asking for a VJ to "provide a public service for free." Whenever I personally have heard this it is connected to narrow-mindedness and general mis-interpretation of whatever subject is in question

    And Kriel's is 100% right. Read ONE Life because that kind of material works (although from you're post it looked like that was the kind of stuff you were trying to do), but its just not going to work in a country where the mainstream culture refuses to accept some of the most obvious realities about their society. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, especially to u, Holly (i dont know what you're views are on this situation) but that is just a blatantly obvious fact of American society.

    anyway im done...if someone disagrees with my views just don't get pissed off. I'm only stating my opinion and i'm not trying to insult anyone
  23. julez

    julez Syn.thesia Visuals

    i hope people r still reading this thread...i actually put effort into that speil

  24. Kriel

    Kriel Trailer Trash

    Nice spelling Julez!

    And yes, we're still reading it.

    I don't think it's a problem doing the anti-American rant -- at least not for myself, since I'm from Alabama.

    This issue, educating people intelligently rather than from a moral base, is critical in American culture at the moment, and particularly on the dance scene.

    Rave Act is an abomination, and in certain interpretations has done more to harm the audience than to help them. This was particularly the case when the acknowledgement of the possibility of members of your audience doing drugs was sufficient to allow you (say, as a promoter) to be prosecuted on drug charges. That resulted in many venues not having emergency medical crew on hand who were trained to handle Ecstacy cases. Because that would have acknowledged that someone could be taking Ecstacy at your gig. So you go to jail.


    I don't believe the CPB network affiliates could run truly informative drug-issue PSAs in America, as they would be concerned about their government funding getting pulled. And I don't believe commercial stations can run them either, for fear of some religious political action committee boycotting the station. And few people outside of New York watch public access, the one place where this information might get out via television.

    From this side of the Atlantic, it's all looks very depressing, and it would hearten me to see a post from the States telling Falk and Holly and Julez and I and everyone else here on the forum how wrong we are, and why.

  25. murph

    murph vidiot


    I'm sorry, but I think we've all seen the pot/terrorism commercials. What a load of bullshit. If that law is true, I imagine that the drug czar had to actually PAY for that airtime? In fact, I believe he did, several times during the superbowl even, with my fucking tax money.

    I could certainly create what you're looking for, but it sounds like a great way to further drive home the idea in kids' minds that a rave is a great place to go if you're looking for drugs. In fact, I always hear from the older folks about how the news reports' crap on drugs at raves are what really made them popular, suburban kids heard about this place where they could get drugs, and drugs dealers heard about this place where they could make a lot of money, and they all flocked and created the 1998-2000 boom years.

    When I started going to raves, I had no idea that they had anything to do with drug use. I didn't know anyone who took them, and nobody naturally made that association. When I started doing visuals, I wanted to create shows that could look cool without needing to be taking anything. Now, thanks to bullshit like this we have entire fucking laws being written to prevent these events based on the assumption of that association. I'll have no part in furthering that stereotype. I've seen far more ecstacy abused far worse at frat houses than I ever have at any electronic music event.

    If you're interested in making a commercial that mentions the real situations where ecstacy is abused, and the real situations where teenage girls are at risk from said abuse, show a bunch of kids in their house while their parents are outta town, show frat parties, show kids out in the country who are bored out of their minds. If you want to show something shocking and reinforcing of stereotypes, by all means, film a rave, but don't expect help from those of us who are interested in supporting a vibrant and healthy dance culture.

    And if you see the drug czar, (whatever the fuck his name is) spit in his face for me.
  26. eXhale

    eXhale video magician

    speaking of that pot/terrorism PSA, the US gov has been quietly preparing the VICTORY act which creates a new category of crimes called "narco-terrorism". anyone who, directly or indirectly, provides "terrorists" support for "drug crimes" (including simple possession of drugs) risks between 20 years to life imprisonment. remember that, according to the PATRIOT act, anyone suspected of disrupting the governement is a "terrorist". indirect support means this could be an additional risk for rave promoters and anyone involved in that kind of scene.

  27. unjulation

    unjulation Moderator

    sory mate i gota laugh :) drugs and comunall gatherings have been going on for centuries before j.c. and all the rest that they use to controle us, i would go so far as to say that its part of our colective consiousnes to know that they are part and parcel of the space that we work in, sorry but i just find it a bit nieve that you wernt aware of them when the whole sceen has been based upon there use even before "rave" per say was even a twinkle in someones eye

    sorry i'm realy not geting at you just woke up and i should be at a free party but i slept through my lift phone call, what, me drunk, with my reputation, so i'm just a bit out there at the moment and just replying to what i see ;)

    mind the bottle of white lightning is doing wonders to my brusied ego :lol:
  28. julez

    julez Syn.thesia Visuals

    yeah..slowly and subtly we are being told what to think by a government that claims it is doing the best for the people.

    Calling an act the Victory act or Patriot act is another sign that the administration is just playing on our post S-11 fears. Maybe we should be using our creative talents to effect change rather than to create a bullshit PSA that will just further the negative views on raves and our culture. No one here is denying that drugs are a problem at events (i hope):eek: but this kind of white middle America rubbish isnt going to help anyone.

    Ahh the golden years of rave...:sad:
  29. fluchtpunkt

    fluchtpunkt Moderator

    addiction is a problem NOT drugs per se

    on a side not ...reading this thread i've come to wonder:

    where are the PSAs the tv-watching croud would be the most obvious target group for (& in most dire 'need' of): anti tv-addiction/couch-potato ads.

    ...i like the idea of viewing vjing & vjs as a kind of antidote or therapy for tv-addiction. having said that: maybe you vjs in the US could make 'pro-vjing' propaganda disguised as anti-tv PSA's (i mean 'everybody' else is using other peoples addictions as an excuse to try to impose their world-views on others) :

    the target audience is teenagers addicted to soaps.
    the concern is they don't have a social life or any social skills.
    the message would be: teenagers who regularly go to parties/raves get audiovisual stimulation they can talk about in school the next day; but in contrast to turning into sociopaths they get to know people & develop social skills. most importantly, good parents should support their kids if they wanted to get into vjing, djing or organizing local events (instead of sitting in front of the tv they are doing something creative & building a community or public space).

    :jump: :scared: :eek:

    ...or maybe more realisticly :rolleyes: :
    the kid who got into vjing developed skills & later became famously rich as a PR exevutive for amnesty international whereas the other kid who watched tv all the time got completely indoctrinated, only bought consumer products & voted for bush... thereby funding 'the terrorists'!

    ...errrm :confused: or something like that

    as for parties without any drugs: considering history - cultures all around the world - or my personal experience: it simply won't happen!

    PS: took a break from vjing this summer & haven't visited the boards for a while. so here's a big HELLO to all you av-addicts out there, fp.
  30. murph

    murph vidiot

    Bullshit, the essence of raving has never been about doing drugs, it's about dancing to techno music. Drugs and alcohol have always gone with partying and dancing to a certain extent, but the point is that until the nightly news got hold of the story, I don't think the rave scene had any more of that going on than any other dance/music culture.

    When I started going I saw more people getting more stupid at frat parties than I did at raves, and I liked that.

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